S&D E36: Beyond the Figures: Measuring What Matters in Asset Recovery with Dr. Amber Phillips

What happens to a seized mafia asset after the headlines fade? Dr Amber Phillips, Senior Lecturer in Criminology at UWE Bristol, has spent her career chasing that answer, starting with fieldwork in Calabria alongside anti-mafia organisations working to strip the 'Ndrangheta of its assets and its grip on local communities.

She joins Jason Sandoval to unpack her 'Beyond the Figures' research with financial investigators across England and Wales and the gap between headline recoveries and what practitioners count as success. Amber argues for a fifth 'D', Destination, alongside disruption, disentitlement and deterrence, and previews her new study with the National Crime Agency (NCA) and UK Home Office, funded through the Asset Recovery Incentivisation Scheme (ARIS), on whether asset recovery genuinely deters crime.

⏱️ Timestamps

02:00 – Amber's route into asset recovery via Calabria

08:45 – how mafia power works and what asset recovery undermines

14:00 – the GOEL social reuse model in Calabria

17:50 – proposing a fifth D:destination as a measure of success

21:00 – Beyond the Figures

29:45 – how ARIS funding actually works

👤 About Our Guest

Dr Amber Phillips is a SeniorLecturer in Criminology at UWE Bristol, specialising in organised and economic crime. Her career began in Calabria with anti-mafia organisations and she now leads a new NCA/Home Office study examining whether asset recovery genuinely deters crime.

🔑 Key Takeaways

Numbers Do Not Tell the Story

Amber's research with financial investigators found headline figures often miss the disruption and investigative quality practitioners value most.

Destination Deserves Its Own D

Amber proposes adding 'Destination' to the existing 'Four D's' framework of disruption, disentitlement, deterrence and detection.

Low Value Orders Can Outperform High Value Ones

A small seizure from an early-stage offender can disrupt a criminal career as effectively as a six-figure onefurther down the line.

ARIS Funding Shape Investigator Behaviour

How ARIS returns are split between confiscation and forfeiture orders can push investigators toward themore lucrative route, not the more powerful one.

📚 Resources Mentioned

• Dr Amber Phillips on LinkedIn

• Bristol247 on the NCA/Home Office study

• Seize & Desist E32 with Sal Melki, NCA

• Seize & Desist E35 with Oliver Bullough

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